Hi, Rosen.

I guess it depends on the genre/scene. I personally hate being given a biology lesson. I prefer it when the author leaves it up to me. But in some scenes, as you said, it adds to the depths. My rule of thumb: if you can leave the sex out and the reader doesn't miss anything, then it's not needed.

I wrote a few sex scenes and I don't have problems with it, but it really is a matter of genre. Adding sex just because sex sells is silly in my opinion.

I feel that, if an author wants to go for 'sex sells', then it needs to be a core theme of the book.

Tee-hee. She said 'sex'. Titter!

As a red-blooded Englishman in his prime, I am, naturally, a complete wuss about sex scenes. Rarely do I read them and not feel like I could probably skip ahead a bit. Not just because of the associated blush-factor, but they rarely add much the a story, as Rosen says. Knowing this, I avoid writing them in my own books, because I know at least some readers will feel the same.

I think there is a solution of sorts: to write them strongly from one character's perspective, ideally in first-person. Use only the language he or she would use, and view it only through his or her eyes. Get across the character's nerves, excitement, fear, lust, anxiety or whatever is the key emotion.

That way at least it will feel more authentic, and less like a nervous writer sitting there with a biology book in one hand and a thesaurus in the other.

Good advice David. A friend suggested reading 'On Chesil Beach' to see how Ian McEwan handled writing about sex.

I had to agree that he did a very good job but his style was totally incompatible with mine.

I like how in the Catholic Bible they always refer to the sexual act as "he had knowledge of her" or "he knew her". There is some eerie truth to that euphemism, because sex is knowledge. Or rather, it is a way of knowing someone in a very intimate and fundamental way. You can usually lie and bullshit your way through your daily life without anyone knowing who you really are. You can dress yourself in all kinds of different clothes and apparel and hide what you really want or desire. But when you are having sex with someone…you are truly "naked" both physically and emotionally… The sexual act reveals things about yourself to another that you may not even realize--are you selfish? are you just using sex to get off or are you trying to use it connect to another person in a deeper way? are you submissive? Are you angry? Are you embarrassed about your body, or disgusted by your own bodily fluids? etc. etc.

Sex is truth. And it can also be used to show the truth about a character. You can have a detective in your story be one way during a crime scene, then another way when he's with his family, and then yet another way when he's with his wife in front of their kids, and then show yet another intimate side to him during sex…and all of these layers contribute to understanding a character.And to me, the characters make the story.

Stories without characters are just elaborate plot lines. I like a book that puts me into the head AND body of a character (and also, and maybe more importantly, their heart). I want to know what they want (not what they say they want, but what they REALLy want and care about), that way I can truly empathize with them during the story.

The question was "when to use sex scenes"…I like using sex scenes quite a bit, actually. Primarily because I like sex. I like thinking about it, having it, looking at it. I have a fairly sensual imagination and really do truly believe that sex reveals a lot about people (and characters) and can be used in that light quite readily. But I can see how some people (or a lot of people, especially in the United States) can feel a bit prudish about encountering sex scenes in a book and usually take the writer to task for creating sexual obstacles in their pursuit of reading a good story.

I hear the mantra "sex is okay so long as it adds to the story" quite a bit, though I'm not sure I really understand what that means exactly. If a writer can be descriptive with the violence depicting in a story, why not be equally as descriptive and graphic with the sexual content, as well.

It's amazing that a book like The Hunger Games is devoured by millions and the graphic violence is deemed acceptable and quite entertaining, especially considering that it's read primarily by young adults. But when sex is brought up, all of a sudden there is an uproar and outrage when a book graphically (or, rather, descriptively) includes sex. Apparently graphic sex has a rather negative connotation to it, but graphic violence is (while maybe not positive) deemed acceptable and okay, generally speaking. I think 50 Shades of Grey was basically an anomaly of publishing, where a sexually explicit book became mainstream, though I think people might still be a little embarrassed at reading about sex scenes (in other forums, I see a lot of people commenting that they liked the story more than the sex scenes, a passively apologetic view it seems to me, but I forgive them not).

Okay, no more. You know my viewpoint. You may not agree with it, but at least you know it. Enough of the ranting.

i tell you...you put sex in the title of anything and it's like throwing fresh meat in a pool of sharks...

Anthony, your comment keeps getting duplicated? Are you refreshing the page or something? If so, please can you come out of this post as back in again? It emails me whenever a comment is posted.

I shall reply to your excellent comment later.

It's okay, I realised that's what had happened.

In response to your post:

It's interesting what you say about sex being knowledge, because some people's sexual behaviour is very different from the way they conduct themselves generally. Very shy people can be very confident. Very dominant people can be very submissive, etc. Sometimes this doesn't mean anything about a person besides that their sexual tastes literally contradict their behaviour outside the bedroom.

I think, as an author, I would be very reluctant to show incongruity between a character's sex life and their general character, unless I wanted to tell the reader something new about him or her. This is because I would expect a reader to read meaning into 'Jimbob covered her in ketchup and whipped her with the dishcloth' when in real life ketchup smearing may reflect nothing more than a literal fondness of ketchup smearing.

I just switched my browser from Safari to Firefox...and it does not seem to be "reposting" my post. Sorry, don't know too much about query strings or anything. I'm technical enough to be dangerous, but not technical enough to actually be of any use to anyone.

But to respond to the "ketchup" post. The sex is knowledge thing..you indicate that there is a difference between behavior in and out of bed. And that they are not necessarily compatible. But I would argue that, in fact, the behavior we exhibit on the surface (the face we put on) is what we want other people to think of us...but is perhaps hiding what we truly and undeniably want, which is expressed more in the bedroom. E.g. A religious figure goes around pontificating and saying that homosexuality is a sin and that gays should be killed (etc. etc. you get the picture), but then turns right around and secretly has a gay lover (it's been reported to happen). So in this case, the sexual behavour was in fact his true behavior, which he was ashamed of or hiding or vehemently denying. So it's, once again, a Sex is truth kind of thing. We can write a character who has no such parity in behavior, but that doesn't actually reflect some people in real life. I think we might find the shy girl, becomes the proverbial slut in the bedroom, and one might argue that she's just being herself, while presenting a "good Catholic girl" front for her friends and family. Does this happen all the time? Not sure. But when it does, it's interesting to depict because it does show to what lengths some will go to hide their true feelings and illustrate the quiet desperation some individuals go through every day.

But in my won writing, I do feel that including a sex scene that it be meaningful in some way--either a way of connecting to people, or to indicate someting about their character. I don't think it should just be thrown in for the sake of sex itself, unless of course you are writing erotica, then that's different because the primary story motivation IS sex. But otherwise, sex like violence is just a way for a character (or group of characters) to express something physically that they can't otherwise do in words.

But anyway, enjoy your ketchup however you want. It's all good. :)

Okay, i write very long posts. I need to just stop. This is starting to sound like Lucky's rant in Godot. Quick! Take away my hat!!